Sometimes I get pissed coming here...

Sometimes I get seriously pissed when I come here to read posts.

Not because I don't expect people to disagree with my viewpoint.  I generally love a good healthy, reasoned debate.  Unfortunately, for some reasoned doesn't come into play.

Come with me for a ride here.  I left my home in Cleveland Thursday night to news that McCain and Obama were tighter than ever when it comes to the General Election.  Most times I can dispense with such news with a simple reality:  `'It's frakkin' July.''

But this all got under my skin.  I don't know why.  It just did.  It probably had a lot to do with listening to the bubble-headed bleach blondes and other pundits. Thankfully, I traveled to one of my favorite cities in this country - Washington D.C.

D.C. is one of few cities - Boston and Philadelphia being the others - that truly remind me of the greatness and promise of this country. My big mistake is as a journalist, I travel with a laptop.  Being a news junkie comes with the job, even when you don't cover politics. So naturally I check in here and other political blogs.

What do I discover?  A recommended diary nitpicking with Republican language Obama's trip to the Middle East and Europe.   The diarist isn't enamored of the presumptive Democratic nominee which is their prerogative.

What I don't get, however, is how they rationalized their `'concern.'' `'What is Obama doing over there when he should be over here talking domestic policy?''

`'How dare he set it up so his prayer on the Wailing Wall will be leaked.''  And the one that always clobbers me is the one about Obama's ability to speak publicly.  The diarist took issue with that ability as do many others.  As I learned as 12 years of being a movie critic, those who can't do, criticize.  Yup.

Yet the diarist failed to realize one thing - all the truly great presidents possessed the innate ability to move people with words.   Words inspire.  They move people and emotions.

Washington D.C. helped me to remember that here:

<>The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough to those who have too little.<>

And here:
<>"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Establish a law for educating the common people. This it is the business of the state and on a general plan."<>

I have little problem with a person being skeptical, but to pile on a person for the ability to speak eloquently and move the masses seems more than a bit cynical to me.

Imagine what this country had been like had men like FDR and Thomas Jefferson couldn't inspire with words.  The failed economic policies that led to the Great Depression may have lasted longer.  And me, a black guy who lives his dream life, could quite possibly still be in chains.

To those who find the `'soaring rhetoric'' a bit much too take, don't listen or read.  The rest of us will enjoy it and many of us will heed the call to action by the person who speaks them.   To be quite honest, there's little that's cynical about that.

For some of us, Obama and, yes, his words remind us of what this country can and should be.  During the past eight years, many Americans seem to have forgotten that.  If you ask me that's part of our problem here and abroad.



Display:


Re: It's a DKos thing, but tips (2.00 / 19)

10s, 20s and shots of Grey Goose.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:27:32 AM EST

Re: It's a DKos thing, but tips (none / 0)

Some of these people simply need to be beamed up.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a DKos thing, but tips (none / 0)

Nah, I don't want 'em onboard at this point, unless it's to lock them on the holodeck programmed to mimic the inside of the crapper on McCain's goddamn bus.

Other that that, I say set phasers to stun.  We'll wake them in January.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah me too... (2.00 / 14)

i get really frustrated by the moderation here.  it seems that they do not care to set standards for content or behavior. it particulary pisses me off that they allow trash from rascist hate sites to game the diary rec system.

todays diary was stupid but not nearly as offensive as others ive seen here.

the front pagers seem in their own little world. they don't even pretend to act like they know what goes on here.  they don't participate in discussion, even in their own posts...

the "new moderation system" is a lie.  you can tell how much jerome cares about this site by how much and what he posts... not a lot.

i used to hold my tounge out of respect for its owner, but why? he's not here.  he doesn't care. he's given up on this blog and it's rules... and if i do get banned,so what? sockpuppets are ecouraged here.

and to those who say "if you don't like it, leave."  why? why would i leave when i could rule the roost simply by being the biggest asshole and emailing all my friends to rec my diary?  

fuck it im goin camping.


by elie on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:50:35 AM EST

Re: yeah me too... (2.00 / 8)

I completely agree with you.  I think that the reason we see so many inflammatory diaries around here is because it increases traffic.  There are so many "people" around here that espouse such disgusting viewpoints that it can't be an accident.  If the moderators on this site think that this behavior is acceptable in terms of getting click-revenue, I think the least I can do as a participant on this site is to get those same disgusting, racist, homophobic diaries on the rec-list.

We've got regular diarists that compare homosexuality to violent sexual assault and other horrible crimes, and the mods don't bat an eye.  Fucking disgusting, but it generates click-revenue.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 06:11:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah me too... (2.00 / 8)

I think you've hit the nail on the head, here. Not only does it increase traffic, but the diaries get lots of attention from us.
If you'll notice, Linfar's diary had more posts in it than any other diary on the rec list.
Even troll diaries by PUMAs that don't make the rec list get more posts than say, a diary talking about McCain's lack of economic policies.
So, yes, the admin has something to answer for, but so do we.
by skohayes on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 06:34:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah me too... (2.00 / 8)

Absolutely.  We, as a group, ultimately support this crap.  I think what it really comes down to is that a substantial group of people on this site view MyDD as a no-holds-barred slugfest, mainly because of the fact that the mods simply don't seem to care about blatant abuse, sockpuppets, homophobia, etc.  

While the average user is responsible for what makes or breaks the rec list, we can also still expect a bit of work on the part of the moderators.  That work is being ignored, either by laziness or by outright greed via click-revenue.  Quantity is ruling quality, and it isn't going to change anytime soon.  Shame rec'ing is all I've got left.. haha.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 06:56:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's the WWF (2.00 / 1)

of political blogs.  Would we come here because it's easy to navigate?


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the WWF (none / 0)

Hey, it is wussville compared to the real rough stuff

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/inde x.jhtml?videoId=177061


John McCain: Cheney with a temper
by wrb on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think allegiance has something to do with it. (2.00 / 4)

I've seen troll diaries get recommended by quite a few that I know to have far more reasonable and balanced views. These recs seem more an attempt to encourage the diarist than actual approval of the content.

This is a real life phenomenon as well. Many feel compelled to agree with those they regard as their friends, out of a misguided sense of loyalty or support. I find this to be especially true with the more gentle and empathetic, who are often taken advantage of by addictive personalities. Sadly, this kind of enabling only leads them deeper into more passive-aggressive attempts at "support" blackmail.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:26:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Shorter version: (2.00 / 1)

"What a bunch of trolls."

I, too, have been moved to the point of psychoanalyzing the motives of some of the regulars as well.  And I think this may be one of the defining characteristics of trolls: that you reach the point of such contempt that you spend more time psychoanalyzing them than actually listening to them.

Shorter version: They are trolls.  Don't give them the respect of psychoanalyzing them.  Just call them what they are and move on.  That's why I bookmark good pics of trolls to post here.


by Dumbo on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, (none / 0)

The ones I had in mind are quite definitely not trolls - hence my analysis as to their motives. However, I do think they get taken advantage of by trolls, who count on past relationships with them to curry their support.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah me too... (2.00 / 4)

Simply gorgeous rant, elie!  


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:28:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah me too... (2.00 / 2)

Wish I could rec this 100 times.

I can stand debate and different views on issues but :

sockpuppets
gang recs
racism
linking to hate sites
homophobia

How the heck can even 1 of these be allowed on any progressive site?

I've gotten warning from Jerome for the silliest things yet he lets the trolls roam free.

My 2 warning consist of a sig. line I had which read :

Why can't Barack Hussein Obama close the deal with the troll demographic?

This was during the primary wars. Pretty unbelievable.

My second warning was last week when RedStateLiberal called canadian gal a bitch and I wrote :

Does it come out of every orifice?

The shit I mean.

Not only was I told to grow up, I was challenged to take my act elsewhere. Really?

I just don't get it.


No way. No how. No McCain!
by spacemanspiff on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah me too... (2.00 / 2)

I do.

I bet you do as well.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 6)

agree 100%

recced


John McCain: Cheney with a temper
by wrb on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:17:47 AM EST

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 3)

Ditto.


by whognu on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:22:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 4)

I visit for entertainment, but stick around for posters like canadian gal, blazers edge (even though he calls me a spinner), and many others.  They make me think and are intellectually honest.  


by Xris on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:59:00 AM EST

So sensitive (1.20 / 10)

what some of us find so hard to take about Obama is how sensitive he and his supporters are. You dare not criticize The One! Sense of Humor? How dare thee!


by catfish2 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:15:23 AM EST

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 10)

A bit sensitive to unreasonable criticism yea. I think holding his feet to the fire over a legitimate issue like fisa is fair game but to dis him for putting together reasoned thought and then adding style to that just seems bitter.


Elections 2008 Best reality show ever!!!
by kbal on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:27:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you, Kbal. (2.00 / 1)

I would probably be one of the people more critical of Obama on here if it WEREN'T FOR THE TROLLS.  It's hard to hold a balanced discussion about FISA and Obama's role in it when the people that are the first to the attack are people with a false agenda.  I can't help but wonder if some of the people, like Catfish above, that criticize Obama over FISA really even cared about FISA.  They would leap on any silly complaint, given the opportunity.  And thus things that might be real issues get lost in the continuing pointless drivel dialogue of post-campaign Hillary dead-enders.  

And I wonder how many of them actually do care that Hillary lost, and how many just want to be trolls because they like it.  It calls into question the sincerity of all the people who rec their diaries.


by Dumbo on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:05:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 11)

You just did it; you and your ilk do not seem to possess the willpower from using words like the one, messiah, Hussein, and such forth.  Why is that so hard for you guys?  You can at verbatim spew right wing talking points about the guy and at the same time whine how you don't know any of policies. People are resentful when you are intellectually dishonest so don't be surprised if you get pushed back.  Obama supporters will not sit back and let you dictate the message; ask John McCain how hard it is has been for him the past week.


by hocuspocus on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:30:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (1.42 / 7)

So making an honest observation is considered spewing right wing talking points? C'mon. Take 10 steps back and look at how ridiculous that sounds.

It's fine for you to like the guy, but you don't need to pulverize anyone who doesn't fawn all over him. You know, not everyone gets the thrill up their leg.


by SophieL on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:51:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 8)

Calling him "The One" is not an honest observation. It is a deliberate insult to him and his supporters.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:58:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (1.60 / 5)

It would be acceptable if he didn't:

a) throw a tantrum every time either Clinton is subjected to even the slightest rebuke,

and

b) didn't hail from a site that bans people for criticizing McCain.


by MeganLocke on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:36:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I doubt there's real concern for Clinton. n/t (2.00 / 1)


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 5)

How is claiming his prayer note was a calculated motive an "honest observation"?  How is claiming the man is a Muslim an "honest observation?"  How is claiming he doesn't want to visit the troops an "honest observation?"  How is claming he doesn't wear flag pins as an un-American gesture an "honest observation?"  How is claiming he is a sexist an "honest observation?"  These are the same complaints I see from PUMA's, Clinton supporters, and right wingers.


by hocuspocus on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 03:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Honest observation." (2.00 / 2)

"honest observation"

Would you know one if it jumped up and bit you?  I would love to read some honest observations.  But a continous stream of bullshit from disingenuous people with a false agenda isn't a good source for that.


by Dumbo on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 7)

That would be true if any of the criticism of Obama took the form of Satire or tried to be funny.

Usually it's either concern trolling or as with one diary on the rec list today, trying to compare him with Jimmy Carter.


by JENKINS on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:31:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Jimmy Carter? (2.00 / 1)

Really?  As if that's a bad thing?  Good grief.  How many pointless quagmires did Jimmy Carter get us into?  

Don't answer that.  It was rhetorical.  

The "Obama is Jimmy Carter" meme comes straight from the Sean Hannity.  That anybody here would use it speaks volumes.  


by Dumbo on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So full of it. (2.00 / 13)

Your criticisms, like the others here, can be heard at any hour of the day on FOX Noiz. It's just garden variety regurgitations of Sen. McCheese's attacks on Obama.

Whatever the difference between PUMAs and McTrolls is, it sure isn't the GOP lies and libels they both use to try to undermine the Democratic nominee.

But what's amusing, in a childish way, is that they really seem to think that they should be able to use this site as an unchallenged outreach of the RNC and call it criticism and debate when it's really just the wedge politics of division and hate, which is all they know.


by Beren on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 03:27:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 7)

This is why you'll never get it Catfish.  By the way, don't PUMAs eat fish?  Good luck with that.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 6)

Blackened Catfish

INGREDIENTS
2 teaspoons cayenne pepper
2 teaspoons lemon pepper
2 teaspoons garlic powder
2 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoons pepper
1 pound catfish fillets
2 tablespoons butter
1 cup Italian-style salad dressing
 Add to Recipe Box
My folders:

Add to Shopping List
 Add a Personal Note

DIRECTIONS
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Lightly grease a medium baking dish.
In a shallow, medium bowl, mix cayenne pepper, lemon pepper, garlic powder, salt and pepper.
Brush both sides of catfish fillets with butter. Rub fillets with the cayenne pepper mixture on both sides.
Heat a large heavy skillet over medium-high heat until really hot. Add fillets, and fry approximately 2 minutes on each side, until slightly blackened.
Arrange blackened fillets in a single layer in the prepared baking dish, and coat with Italian-style salad dressing. Bake 30 to 35 minutes in the preheated oven, until fish is easily flaked with a fork.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:29:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 2)

Sounds like a good recipe, but you know it's unkosher to eat bottom-dwelling fish.


by mikeinsf on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:53:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 1)

Yes, there's no telling what effect the heavy metals and other toxins to be found in such creatures have affected the judgment of the inhabitants of certain areas of this country.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 04:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (none / 0)

LOL


by mikeinsf on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 06:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (none / 0)

Can't say I'm a fan of catfish even though I live in MS. There is a catfish restaurant less than a 1/2 mile away. I go there once in awhile, but I'd much rather have walleye, yellow perch, or whitefish. Heck, I'll take bluegills any day over catfish. I'm from Michigan originally and I'm used to eating good fish from cold water. There's no comparison between a perch from one of the Great Lakes and a catfish from a fish farm.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 05:16:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You wouldn't recognize humor. (2.00 / 3)

Not if it was served up to you on a plate with bernaise sauce.

Mean-spirited, juvenile put-downs only pass for "humor" in the echo chambers of the Limbaughs and the Coulters. If you're feeling unappreciated, I suggest you take your blatherings over there.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Critics, yes. Trolls, no. (2.00 / 7)

You are the latter.


by Geekesque on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:51:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (1.85 / 7)

Please, you squeal and whine everytime anyone says anything critical about either Clinton.  And again, your home site doesn't even allow criticism of McCain.

You're being dishonest, as usual.  And everybody knows it.  Don't even know why you bother posting here.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So sensitive (2.00 / 1)

How rich coming from one of Alegres gang that left ko's because they couldn't handle the criticism there. You reek of hypocrisy.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:26:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i like this diary... (2.00 / 3)

however i am hesitant to rec it.  why?  well two reasons - first i love this place - and while i think there are some problems to be ironed out - some of the users here are incredible and truly gifted writers, i much prefer it here to any other blog.  and second - ltwolf, in the past some of the more offensive comments here sadly typed out of that laptop you carry.  so while i agree with your sentiments, im not sure if i can back you on this one.

in any case - really nice diary - thanks!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:37:10 AM EST

Re: i like this diary... (2.00 / 3)

ltworF with an F

And if my comments get out of hand it's usually the direct result of what I'm talking about here.

Any heated battle I get locked into comes courtesy of reading stuff that's so very petty and disingenous that there is no other way to react.

That give the fact that sarcasm is my friend doesn't usually make for pleasantries when my ire is up.  


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:49:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's not bring up the past. (2.00 / 3)

If we judged everyone here based on their utterances during the primary wars, few would make the cut.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:40:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's not bring up the past. (1.50 / 2)

yeah it sucks when your own words are used against you...so very very unfair, just like McSamedumbaya always complain about...think about that


by zerosumgame on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Think context. (none / 0)

This wasn't a case where he was contradicting an earlier assertion, which is what you claim. This was a case where he was being called out for earlier unpleasantness, mostly from the primaries. That kind of claim could be made for almost everyone on this site.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:29:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 8)

Recc'd
Totally agree.
I find it entertaining here, but honestly have a hard time taking it seriously. There are some serious, politically-minded writers here, but it's also allowed to be a staging area for PUMA and NoQuarter trolls, who like to frame their abuses as a 'difference of opinion'.
How does that get Democrats elected?
* Hums Mr. Rogers theme *
by Maori on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 03:08:25 AM EST

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 5)

"How does that get Democrats elected?"

This site hasn't been about the above for months and months.  When virulently and racist anti-Obama posts and posters were allowed free rein during the primaries, but serious and reasonable anti-Hillary posts ABOUT SUBSTANCE were HRed and their authors lost ability to rec or rate, that's when this stopped being true.  

I come here for the entertainment and to argue and be pissed and realize that it has no impact on the world.  I go to Voldemort (the orange blog that shall not be named) to actually make a difference.


by ProgressiveDL on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:24:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 2)

Well said.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To be fair, (none / 0)

Jerome did ban some of the worst racist anti-Obama diarists, like Linfar and that particularly atrocious diary he wrote that got quoted on Freerepublic after it was wiped here.  Some others, as well, though they may have come back as sockpuppets.  So he made some effort, but it has been spotty and non-existent of late.  


by Dumbo on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:28:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like it here, for the same reasons that make (2.00 / 7)

me crazy.

When I first came here, nobody liked me and many wanted my hide nailed to a wall.  Now I consider many of these same folks good friends, who I periodically want to strangle (story of my life :).  It would only seem logical that I would prefer spending my time with people who would more often align with my views - support my thoughts with words of encouragement - even I think that is what I would prefer.

But that isn't what I do, so I must just be wrong about myself.  My very best friends in life, in work and, now, in politics - the "I wish there came a Rambo moment so we could all Fight Evil together" friends - all present me with frequent bang-head-on-nearest-wall opportunities.

It may be that the exercise of finding how the most ardent opposition thinks is the best whet-stone for the blade of my own ideas.  It could be that the challenge of building consensus among a wildly divergent group is the only thing that can keep my attention.

I may just be nuts.

But when I look back on my life the lessons that really stick did not come from those I agree with, they most often came from dealing with those I do not.

So, yeah, I feel your pain.  And I'd like to say that I wish everyone would just get along.  But while I want to stay hale and healthy by sitting on a barco-lounger, the fact is that the good exercise that builds your body actually sucks wind.    In the same way, I'm glad I don't get what I want in debates like we have here, either.  It is what keeps me coming back.

Recced.

-chris


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:23:07 AM EST

As the Brits would say... (2.00 / 6)

...it helps to get a little bit pissed before coming here.


by username on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 08:43:48 AM EST

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 2)

Well, this is why I am visiting this site less and less.

I like a good argument.

But batting things back and forth with folks who have no interest in fairness, intellectual honesty and basic facts?  Nope.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:00:27 AM EST

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 6)

I agree.  There is a difference between healthy discussion and silliness.  I was extremely upset by the "he leaked his own prayer" mantra.  I think that some people yearn for mediocrity and cannot support excellence due to some defect in their own character.  

Perhaps they have been disappointed too many times and have lost the ability to hope?

I am shaken by the amount of resistance I find to Obama from people who I would expect to be reasonable democrats.  

I am a liberal republican.  My sister calls herself a conservative democrat.  We both agree on Obama.  My father, a lifelong democrat, said something the other night that I want to repeat:

If Obama was a Republican, I would still vote for him. How can a real democrat honestly reject him?


"They are ever so much nicer at Tiffany's!"
by epiphany on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 09:02:09 AM EST

Oh, well said! (2.00 / 2)

If Obama was a Republican, I would still vote for him.

I thought about that. If he were republican, I'd be tempted to vote for him as well. I encourage you to diary that thought: If Obama were a Republican...


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:59:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, well said! (2.00 / 1)

Thanks,it would be my debut diary.


"They are ever so much nicer at Tiffany's!"
by epiphany on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 4)

" I was extremely upset by the "he leaked his own prayer" mantra."

Fingergate was the first salvo in the ridiculously blatant attacks by conservatives pretending to be liberals (this means you, Alegre).


by ProgressiveDL on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:26:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 1)

Don't forget the infamous kindergate.


by Philoguy on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That coulda been written by Shakespeare... (2.00 / 1)

"...some people yearn for mediocrity and cannot support excellence due to some defect in their own character."


by Dumbo on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 10:32:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 7)

I have often felt the same way about this site. There are plenty of good progressive sites out there where one could interact with like-minded activists working towards victory in November, but this site keeps drawing me back.

Part of the reason I keep coming back here is the back-and-forth between Obama bashers and Obama supporters. On those other sites, I would just be reinforcing the message, here I'm pushing back against falsehoods and urban myths. I think that is what keeps me here.

Only yesterday, I was thinking about limiting my reading here to the front page posts. There are a lot of good posts there. However, the first place I found myself this morning was in the user diaries.

Someday, I might get tired of this nonsense, but until then I'll continue to fight the good fight.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 11:12:25 AM EST

Myself? I just can't resist .. (2.00 / 4)

calling out bullshit when I see it.  And lately some of the bullshit around here is as addictive as Pringles.  

Example: the whole "wrote a prayer and left it to be found" bullshit based in nothing but "I thought this up and it fits my twisted opinion of the guy so I know it's true."  

Example 2: "He should have visited wounded soldiers anyway and so it's obvious he's only concerned with photo-ops"  where the writers patently refuse to recognize FACT so they can continue to propagate ugly conjecture.  

Example 3: All hyperbolic permutations of "FISA" that accuse Obama of hating on the Constitution, you know, because he's a GD Harvard schooled Constifuckintional LAWYER.  but hey, they know better, even when they are completely 100% full of shit.

I also couldn't help but notice that after the lot of them were backed into the corner with "if you are voting for McCain push the hell off this site" suddenly they all transmogrified into "deeply DEEPLY concerned but still voting for Obama" voters who are always certain to mention just how AWFUL McCain is before dropping at least three cheap shot labels on Obama or his supporters.  

And OF COURSE if you like the guy, are excited about the campaign, defend THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE (worst of all with FACTS and LINKS) then, well, you are, um,

on your knees slobbering in your worship of The One
unable to acknowledge his Hitleresque ability to induce mass hysteria
can't seem to see he's the next George Bush
an enemy of free speech and dissent
one of those groups that is drawn to flash and style over substance
a big fat meanie


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Myself? I just can't resist .. (2.00 / 2)

I agree with all you said in this comment. The one that bugs me the most is, "an enemy of free speech and dissent."

Since when is pointing out the lack of facts backing up someone's argument a form of censorship? They come on here and spew their latest fantasy and then whine because we have the gall to point out that there is nothing logical or factual about their claims. Then they run back to alegre's basement or flowbee's cesspool and cry to their fellow crybabies about how mean we are and how we are against free speech.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Myself? I just can't resist .. (2.00 / 3)

I've just never fallen for the "free speech" horse crap because controlling the content of a BLOG has nothing to do with free speech.  But hey, thanks for trying.  

the one that irks me is "slobbering worshipper of The One.  What chaps my ass about that is I've been over here waiting for 40 years for an inspiring, articulate, magnetic and intelligent candidate only to, cycle after cycle, be offered another plate of warmed over Mondale.  euch.

It feels like I should get a medal or something for voting for this list -- McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis (wow.  those were the dark days) Clinton, Gore, Kerry.  I think I've sort of PROVED MYSELF as one not easily distracted by flash.

I'm not sure I exactly qualify as "worshipping" the guy just because, wow, I'm still capable of being inspired and my soul hasn't dried up like a rotten prune.  I think some folks are just addicted to cynicism.   I also think there are some former Clinton people out there (not Pumas) who just can't stand the fact that Obama is this successful.  They were counting on their "I told you so".


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 2)

I would venture to think that most republicans would be very upset with Obama's ability to speak. Did you ever hear McCain?


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. -- Thomas Jefferson
by pollbuster on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:52:44 PM EST

Re: Sometimes I get pissed coming here... (2.00 / 3)

That's what's at the heart of the "cult" attack - they're taking his ability to make a good speech and suggesting there's something creepy about it.


We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.
by Jess81 on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 01:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah (2.00 / 3)

As if speaking well and being inspirational were bad things.  As if having a politician that wasn't burned in effigy every time he traveled overseas was somehow undesirable. It's ridiculous nonsense.


by mikeinsf on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 02:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And don't forget... (2.00 / 2)

Blacks aren't supposed to be able to talk (speaking as a recipient of the "You're so articulate" backhanded compliment).  There's just something...not right about it...unnatural, either someone's telling him what to say, or (gasp) he really IS that intelligent, because he's (cue horror music) THE ANTICHRIST.

Kind of like how women who could read and count were accused of being witches.


* Hums Mr. Rogers theme *
by Maori on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 05:33:45 PM EST


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